Context: gmoney on the future of NFTs, luxury fashion & not being afraid to throw up a bid

[00:00] Welcome to Season 1, Episode 6 of Context, views on crypto and culture, presented by Boys Club. [00:06] With me, your host, Blake Finucane. [00:09] Today, I am so excited as we have on one of the most iconic [00:13] Brilliant. [00:14] and successful people in the NFT world on the podcast today, the one and only G-Money, [00:21] And, you know, as everything started to pick up steam in early 2021 with NFTs, [00:26] As that word started to enter common vernacular, as people started hearing that word more and more, and then subsequently really pushing back on the ideas that NFTs represented. [00:37] It was G Money who really stood as the de facto spokesperson advocating for the importance of non-fungible digital assets, and he did it so eloquently. So it is truly a dream to have him on, and he was so kind and so fun to have on. [00:54] We talk about how he built his brand online and why that was important to him. [00:58] His value proposition for the importance of NFTs, and if this has changed at all since he began investing in them in 2020— [01:05] I also couldn't resist talking to him about his past career as an equities trader and what skills have crossed over and made him successful in Web3. [01:14] We end by talking about his incredible clothing brand, 9DCC, and how he's bridging luxury fashion with the forefront of technology and gamification. [01:24] And what he's created with this brand is super impressive, super innovative. And if you care about fashion and really building communities online, you will want to hear about his brand and how he's thinking through these ideas.

[01:37] So this episode isn't to be missed. It's G-money. What more can I say? So I can't wait for you to listen. Let's get into the episode. [01:54] I am so honored to have G-Money on the podcast today. I've been following him since January 2021, when he paid the highest price ever for a CryptoPunk. That was 140 ETH at the time, about $170,000 USD. [02:08] And that was a little over two years ago. [02:11] Since then, he's been involved in some of the most iconic, seminal cultural moments around NFTs. He sold Visa their first NFT, which was a CryptoPunk. He partnered with Adidas to help them launch their first NFT. At one point, he even took out the biggest NFT loan of all time. He also launched AdmitOne last year, which is really organized around an NFT collection, but is a super vibrant community and really your entry point into the G-Money ecosystem, [02:41] money. He also launched the brilliant 90CC last year. He is wearing the shirt I am not, although I own both. Okay. Just, just for the record. Um, and 90CC is the first ever web three native luxury fashion brand. He is a former equities trader who is now one of the most important and influential figures we have ever had in the NFT space. His influence is really hard to quantify. I thought, as I was like, [03:06] reflecting on this interview. But I would really describe him. He's an investor and a collector. He's also an educator and a builder and a leader in terms of the ideas he's pioneered around the importance of NFTs and digital assets and the actions he's actually put behind those ideas. He is not afraid to throw up a bid. So he makes big moves. And what makes him so essential to our space, I think, is that he can explain why he's actually made these big moves, why he's bought a

[03:36] NFTs are relevant, why this technology is the future for brand building, for identity, for expression. And he can do this all to a general public, to a non-crypto audience in a very accessible way. So he can bridge communication between the old and the new financial and social paradigms being created. [03:54] through crypto and NFTs. So I always look to him in terms of what he's saying, what he's building. The audience is in for such a treat today. [04:03] G-Money, thank you sincerely for being on. Thank you for that intro. I'm going to have you introduce me everywhere I go from now on. Like, I'm blushing right now. I'm like, whoa. Okay, well, I mean, you can take me to the Prada Fashion Show anytime you want. I'll introduce you to anyone, wherever you're going. I'm down. I'm available. So you let me know. [04:24] Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. And the audience is so lucky and so am I to be listening to what you have to say. [04:33] first start as more of a general question where, you know, today, particularly in crypto, you have to build your brand, you have to build your following. So much important is placed on that. And you have become one of the most influential voices. And you've mentioned before that you consciously built your brand around your thought process, particularly in the NFT space. So how did you go about building your brand? And why did you think it was so important? [04:58] - You know, I realized [05:02] When I first got into NFTs, it was initially a trade for me. I was like, all right, as somebody with a finance background, trading equities,

[05:12] in Q4 of 2020 and really, really early in 2021, I was like, you know, this is probably like the best, [05:21] risk adjusted trade I can make on planet Earth that was available to me at the time for a lot of different reasons. You know, I think at the time, Ethereum was somewhere between three hundred and five hundred dollars. I was bullish on Ethereum. And so I was bullish on assets priced in Ethereum. And I originally was like, well, it's very similar to how you have the wealth of the wealth effect in publicly public equity markets, [05:51] watches, all these things are at all time highs. I thought the same thing would happen with NFTs in terms of like, [05:57] as people became crypto rich, they'd want to spend money on crypto native stuff. So that was my original thesis on there. [06:04] on NFTs. And then shortly thereafter, it really, really started to morph where I said, wow, like, [06:12] This is more than just a trade. This was something where it's like this technology was so important to, I think, [06:19] how we will live as a society going forward in terms of like, how do you, you know, like we like currently right now you can like copy and paste the picture, right? But how do you display digital ownership right in the future? And NFT technology to me was like, yeah, well, you know, here's a ledger that says [06:36] Technic like I own it right like this was originally, you know, this was the first time it was made It's it's funny with all these like the ordinals and stuff that's happening. Yeah, right where people are like, oh well Like this is the first ordinal on Bitcoin. It's like well, you

[06:50] It's just a copy of the original CryptoPunks. So I personally don't get it. And there's been Counterparty before. There's been a lot of... Yeah. It's just so bizarre where these narratives form. G-Money, not bullish on Ordinals. Yeah, I'm not bullish on Ordinals. But maybe it's because I don't get it. Personally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I see it as... [07:13] It's like the equivalent of taking a $1 bill and drawing something on it. [07:19] And it's like it's still like a one dollar bill. And, you know, if Andy Warhol drew on a one dollar bill, it would be worth something. But if somebody's drawing a Campbell's soup can that Andy Warhol initially made somewhere else. [07:33] I don't really see the value in it personally. I just think that it's so with your initial thesis being like NFTs represent digital ownership and you can you can broadcast broadcast that so broadly. And if like the ordinal play, you cannot do that. It is so for like a specific crypto niche that does not cross over in the way that particularly Ethereum or like EVM compatible digital assets do. [08:03] digital collectible thesis. I will say the thing I like the most about all this is seeing all these Bitcoin marks. I knew you were going to say that. I knew you were going to say that. That we're swinging on NFTs like two years ago that are now like... [08:15] And NFTs are like, what's going to take Bitcoin mainstream? It's like, bro, you missed that boat. Yeah. And even like from a historical perspective, there's been a lot of like side chains on Bitcoin that you could that you could kind of mint. I was like minting Pepe's in like 2016 on Counterparty. So it's like, so it's like, OK, well, there. Yeah. And the UX, we don't even need to get into how confusing the UX is. But yeah, totally. I'm with you. But yeah, it's so funny. And I love how we just went on a tangent on this.

[08:45] it's going to happen this podcast. I feel like I've known you. We literally just met a few minutes ago. I feel like I've known you for years. Like, so... [08:53] A market guy, you know, a trader. I love it. [08:56] But yeah, so it was really like probably I'd say by like March and April of 2021 where I realized... [09:05] you know, this is just going to be so much bigger than I originally thought. Right. And so if this was going to be so much bigger than I originally thought, that meant that every brand on the planet would be entering into the space at some point, you know, whether, you know, at the time I thought it would be years, I didn't realize it was [09:21] you know, a matter of weeks to months away. And so I was like, well, I'm going to establish myself as [09:27] somebody that's obviously seeing a little bit ahead of where most people at the time were because [09:33] I remember when I bought my CryptoPunk... [09:35] And I wrote this thread on it, like even like really smart people in crypto that understand DeFi and crypto were like, [09:42] You're an idiot. Like, why would you ever do this? So I was like, there's there's a space there that I see that not a lot of other people see. And if I can, I think one of the things that I was really good at was just being able to take these really technical concepts and kind of making them like. [09:59] understandable to the normal person where it's like, no, well, like, this is how we do it already. Now we're just doing it with like technology. And people will be like, Oh, like, all right, I get it, right? Because like, especially in, by the end of 2020, I've gotten the pitch down where, and I specifically remember, this was the day of the Beeple every day's drop.

[10:19] where they are. Yeah, I think it was I don't even know. It was like the nifty, the nifty people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seven minute open edition. Yeah. And I brought my laptop to dinner and I was out to dinner with like seven or eight crypto people. And it was like an hour before the drop. And everybody at the table was like bearish. They're like NFTs are stupid. And I was able to convince all of them within the 20 minutes before the drop like that. And they were all of them. I convinced [10:49] all. [10:49] right and that was a thousand bucks they i mean they traded i think as high as 100 150 000 and then i don't i don't even know what they're at now but they immediately started like mooning right afterwards but i was like wow i i got my pitch down so that [11:03] Most people would be like, all right, well, I don't really get NFTs like they're not for me, but I understand why you might like it. [11:09] And so I was like, all right, [11:11] If I got my pitch down to be able to convince people like I need like if I'm going to go around dinner party to dinner party convincing people that NFTs are the future, like, you know, we'll be here like a million years from now with still like nobody converted. So I was like, I need scale of a platform. And I was like, if I can convey that and convince some people why the tech is important, then maybe that helps with adoption of crypto overall, which I think helps with sovereignty and, you know, digital asset rights in the future. [11:41] super important for our children and our grandchildren, even more so than us. So that really was like where it started stemming from. It was just like, okay, I'm seeing the world a little bit differently. Um, you know, now like somebody spends a million dollars on a PFP, like nobody really bats an eye, but at the time, like people were like, you're crazy. Like, why would you ever do this, this and that? And so it was just like, just something that I was seeing a little bit differently than most. And it's like, if maybe it helps people, it helps people. If it

[12:11] started the account, when I wrote that, one of the best handles in the game. Oh, thank you. Like all G money, like we're done. That's it. Yeah. But, but I remember when I started the account, I think I had like 50 something followers of like, you know, just people that were in the space. And I was like, if I get to 10,000 followers by the end of 2021 and starting, you know, Jan 1st, 2022, I'll consider it a massive success. Yeah. [12:35] And I got to like 10,000 followers, I think within the next like somewhere between like four 30 to 60 days, something like that. And I was like, it was just wildly more successful than than or it was going more viral than I thought. And I was like, wow, I'm like, all right. So like, I'm really just going to lean into this because, again, like I was just seeing the space a little bit differently. And if I can help encourage people to understand it a little bit better than, you know, then they could, you know, talk to their peer group. [13:05] like the essence of like how ideas spread. And that really was like the thesis for it. And like the original, [13:11] the original, the origin story, I guess, of like, G Money, the Twitter handle. I've always been called G Money since like I was in high school. So it wasn't like a name that like I... You invented for yourself. People called you at first. I am G Money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you embody it, but people called you at first. Okay, yeah, yeah. Good, good distinction to make. And I guess I have two follow up questions for that. But first would be, I mean, because you're... [13:39] you'd obviously be as intelligent, as capable without the following. Is there certain specific things that the following has allowed you to do, um, that you just wouldn't be able to do without it?

[13:51] I think definitely for sure is getting, let's say, being able to work with people probably like at the cutting edge where now it's like, you know, I just from the simple fact that it's like, oh, well, if I, you know, they do do something with me, it helps shine a light, more of a light on things that they're building. [14:21] What's end up happening is a lot of people are building on the protocol layer and everybody's like we're going to build the protocol that everybody's going to use for X and that's great [14:30] But the problem is where we're at right now is people have built these 10 lane highways when there's three cars on the road. Right. True. That's a good analogy. On the road. Right. And so, you know, one of the things I'm doing in 90CC is I'm partnering with people that I think are best in class in terms of the things that they're working on. And I'm, you know, I'm trying to help them. You know, I'm getting cars on my road, which will help them get cars on their road. And I think they're more willing to work with me because they're saying, all right, well, G Money is doing something. [15:00] on the stuff he's doing with 90CC. If we're working with 90CC, that will get eyeballs on the stuff that we're working with. And I think that it's helped in that sense in that it's made it easier for people to want to partner with me because they know, right? Like, [15:14] "Why would I wanna work with Adidas?" Because that just gets tons of eyeballs on myself and on the things that I'm doing. And I think it's just like, kind of like a smaller version of that, of people, it's like, all right, well, here we have this tech,

[15:25] Nobody knows about it. And we can partner with somebody like G that understands the tech, understands the importance of it, because I think. [15:32] The interesting thing, obviously, with legacy brands is that they don't totally understand. They might they might get the ethos of decentralization, but they might not totally vibe with it. You know, like they're everybody falls on a certain scale of that gray. And, you know, it's like I'm, you know, a crypto native. So I want to see that, you know, decentralization where maybe like a legacy brand might come into space like now we want to own that in house. Like, all right, cool. I don't think I think in the long run, it's not going to be. [16:02] successful because it's, you know, a walled garden, you know, web 2.5 when we really should be going to web three. And so I think we're probably just we're probably at the beginning stages of watching that play out over time. [16:15] maybe it's very much a trader energy or mentality, but people thought you were really wrong. And at certain points, like there's been, there's been such extreme ups and downs in the crypto market. So I'm just wondering how you were able to be confident in your thesis and, and kind of [16:34] hold steady and make big plays and make big moves around it even when most people were telling you that it's wrong to me that takes an extreme amount of confidence and just selfish self-assuredness and willingness to actually take a loss um but like how do you build up the actual kind of [16:54] mental and emotional fortitude to stay with it.

[16:57] So I think I think that's a really good question. And I think [17:02] everything that I had done as a trader had prepared me for that. Right. So, um, and so even when I was trading, I was only right, like in a good month, my best months where I would make like the most money, I was only right 60% of the time. Yeah. [17:18] On average, I was only right 55% of the time. So, you know, like pretty much every other time, I would be wrong, right? And so I'm okay with being wrong. [17:27] what, what you have, like, you have to be okay with being wrong, but you also have, because of that, you have to manage risk. Right. So I wouldn't, I didn't bet everything I had on it. I said, I'm going to put a certain amount of money into this. [17:39] If I'm wrong, the most I can lose is 100%. [17:43] But if I write, [17:44] I'm going to make, you know, multiple hundreds, if not thousands percentage on on my my investment. And so that's the way like I was looking at it. So I was like, all right, I have enough conviction that I'm putting a significant amount of capital into it. But if I'm wrong, I'm not going to be like living on the street trying to figure out like how I'm going to eat tomorrow. Right. But I also understood this. Like I could be wrong. I could be right. [18:14] New years going in from 2020 going into 2021, [18:17] I was with a bunch of my friends who were also traders who are still also trading. And I was telling them how I was buying NFTs and they were looking at me like I had 10 heads. They were like, they were like, they didn't want to call me an idiot because they knew that I had good ideas in the past. But they were like.

[18:35] Yeah, like I'm definitely not going to do that. And I remember like after that trip, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to hang out with my Internet friends and discord for the next three to five years. And then mass adoption is going to come. And then, you know, my friends will see. It ended up happening like, you know, 60 days later. Right. And so it ended up happening like way faster where, you know, NFT started exploding. The prices, everything started exploding. And I was like that, like I didn't necessarily have to wait that long in order for the trade to play out. [19:05] willing to wait long for the trade to play out. And I think it really just comes from understanding one is like, [19:12] Knowing that I'm not always going to be right. And if I'm if I'm not right, like put myself in a position where I'm not like, you know, how am I going to make rent this month? How am I going to eat? Right. Because I think that's that's the key that always, I think, messes people up. And even in crypto, I see it a lot where like people like trade on leverage when it's like. [19:31] You don't need to trade on leverage. Like this is crypto. If you're right, you're going to make ungodly amounts of money with no leverage. Like there's like that's that's part of the beauty. Like I sleep so well now. Like when I was trading equities, I would trade. There'd be times when like I would have really levered positions on that if they moved against me overnight, like I would wake up and not be not be happy at all. But like now in crypto, it's like, you know, like, you know, I wake up one day, maybe eat this down 10 percent. [20:01] I wish it wasn't down 10%, but I'm also risking 10% right now.

[20:08] ETH could triple by the end of the year. Like, I don't know, right? - Yeah. - And so I think that's what's lost, I think, on a lot of people is a lot of people want to get rich quick. [20:17] in anything. It's not just crypto. I think it's just pervasive in Western culture, I guess. Right. People are just like, you know, and I fall privy to it, too. Right. Like, I want to make the most amount of money with the least amount of work. Right. Like that's called proficiency. Right. And so, like, I think that a lot of people mistake the fact that, you know, you can do really well by clicking a button. [20:39] So everybody thinks that like they can be a trader, but it does take a lot of mental fortitude. So like I think the fact that I was able to kind of go out, I made my thesis. I, you know, put my my money where my mouth was and it was like, all right, then now it's like I laid everything out. [20:57] I had my thesis and now watch it play out. If I was right, great. If I was wrong, you know, I would reevaluate it as that time came. I think being wrong and then adjusting from that is like an actual skill that very few people have. They're, you know, they can't take in the information to continue to adjust their thesis. So do you think that that was a skill that you learned? [21:20] around how to construct versus like you weren't just born with it. Right. No, I think it's definitely like a muscle that's grown. Like even like one of the things I always loved about trading public markets was that [21:34] it costs almost nothing to get in and out of a position, right? So I could buy something and then I could say, wait, no, I changed my mind. I can get out. Like there were times so many times when like I buy, sell, buy, sell, buy, sell, like as quickly as I just said it, because I'm like trying to digest the information, right? Because like that doesn't really happen. That happens in crypto now, but like that doesn't happen in real estate, right? Like you can't buy a house.

[21:58] in real estate. And then as soon as you close, be like, oh man, I made a mistake. And then try to sell it and sell it instantaneously. And they're like, no, wait, wait, wait, I was right. Let me buy it again. Right. Like that is something that like, I think it's an advantage to trading in, in public markets and public liquid markets that, um, you should utilize, right. Where it's like the information changes second by second. And so like your processing of that information needs to change. And guess what? It might take you a couple of times to figure it out, but like [22:28] grand scheme of things, even if it costs you like 1% each way, right? Like it's not that much when you compare it to like, you know, when you buy or sell real estate, right? Like the bid-ask spread is really large. You have to pay a 6%, 7% brokers commission plus the time. And, and, you know, you can be looking at spreads of like 20, 30, 40%, depending on how fast you want to get out. [22:49] And then the price of a liquid public market is way, way smaller. Like use that to your advantage. Right. And like I, for myself, like I, it's funny cause I have a friend, I have friends that when they're in a bad position, like they're able to think clearly and like add as the positions going against them. I'm not like, I, I'm like, [23:07] I'm wrong, I lost X, let me get out, let me reevaluate, because the second I get out, [23:13] And I'm not worried about like, am I gonna lose more? Am I gonna make some of it back? I can just think clearly and I can get back in. But I have friends that are like, when the position's moving against them, they can still think clearly enough that they're like adding to it. When like, they're adding to it when I'm selling, right? And like, that's like something that they're good at. I'm just not wired that way, right? And like, we're both successful traders in our own rights with different strategies that like, just goes to like, what our personalities are, right?

[23:43] And I think that those things are just developed over time because there's very – [23:48] I mean, I've met so many traders through the years. There's very few people that are like naturals, right? Like it's like [23:54] And I think everyone wants to tell a story that you either have it or you don't, which I guess in a lot of ways is true, but everything can be developed and refined. Yeah, you just have to be willing to put in the timer, just like anything, right? It's just that I think when you can see, when it's very easy to sit in front of a screen and be like, oh, I press a button, I made money, and then I press another button and I sold it. Like, it seems really easy, but I honestly think it's probably one of the most... [24:22] psychologically taxing professions out there. I mean... [24:27] I've only watched Traders sometimes closely and sometimes from afar. [24:33] I, you know, there's so much lore around you guys, you know, and, and, and how kind of like, [24:40] high energy and then big money that can be made. But then the downside is extreme too. Right. But also, a lot of it gets romanticized, right? When I was trading, literally 96% of the time, I'm just sitting in front of my computer waiting for something to happen. It's not fun, but when you watch Wolf of Wall Street, when you watch Wall Street, when you watch all these movies, [25:04] fuck like I want to be Gordon Gekko right like I want to be Bud Fox but like in reality like I literally would like wake up really early I'd read like a ton of news ton of reports and I'd just be like sitting in front of my screen most of the time just like being patient waiting for like the right setup right taking in as much information as possible at all times yeah totally and I guess uh see I could go off on trading tangents which I'm not going to I'm going to try to keep to the script because I was like I have to actually really write down my questions because I know

[25:34] things. [25:35] But, you know, [25:36] I would guess, because we've been talking a lot about theses, and obviously in the academic world, it's all about theses. In the trading world, the two ways that they come together, academics and traders, you know, with thesis. [25:47] Has your thesis at all changed and adjusted since you published the thread in 2021 in terms of the importance of NFTs in your experience? Has it shifted or has there been really, really big parts that you've kind of, [26:04] steadfastly held on to. [26:06] I think it's generally the same in the sense that I think that human, oh, man, I'm going to butcher this quote, but I know Jeff Bezos has this quote where he's like, figure out like how, what, what, what. [26:21] what won't change over the next 20 years and build for that. It's something like that. Right. And that's kind of like what drives his overall vision. Right. And so without realizing it, like my, my thesis was, you know, humans, [26:35] will always want to put themselves on some social hierarchy. And it's not just humans, it's all animals, right? Like, you know, in the animal kingdom, like apes, which are basically like 99.5% humans. And by apes, you mean bored apes. Just kidding. Yeah. Like, you know, like, just like the monkey family, right? Like orangutans, whatever it is, right? They put themselves on these social hierarchies the same way that we do, right? And so it's like, okay, even if we live in

[27:05] world. [27:06] Like, how am I going to show to you that I'm like successful and awesome and like cool, right? There's going to be different ways that we have to do that. [27:13] that need to be translated over. So that was like part of my thesis is like, you know, like what? And somebody wrote like, [27:21] I'm going to butcher this too, but somebody wrote, as people were telling me, right click save, when I wrote that thread and I posted it, and somebody was like, oh, well, you don't know how much money he has in his bank account. [27:34] And it's like, dude, like he just spent $150,000 on a picture. Like who cares how much money he has to pay? Like the same thing, like when somebody spends like $200,000 on a watch, $500,000 on a car, right? Like you don't need to know. You don't need to know how much money, how much they're worth. You just know that it's like, wow, this person has so much money that they spent X on Y, right? [28:04] in like somebody's metaverse world, like 50 years from now, or, you know, whatever have you, like humans will do that. And it's interesting because even you see it, even in like little kids when it's not even taught to them. Right. So it's like, kind of like programmed into us where like, you see these, these articles where like kids will get bullied for like having like the default skin character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like my parents didn't like, you bully that kid if [28:34] somehow it happens which means like

[28:38] it's probably programmed into us. So like, to me, like that is like the core thesis that doesn't necessarily change, but what will change I think is the applications of like one, how does adoption happen to how, how do people start integrating it into their real lives? But then I think like, [28:54] NFTs as status symbols will exist as long as status symbols exist. Right. It's like, you know, why does somebody spend so much money on a watch when you literally don't even need a watch? You can just look at your iPhone. Right. But people still spend a ton of money on watches. And part of it's the craftsmanship. [29:11] But like, does that justify, you know, paying a million dollars for a watch? I don't think so. But like, you know, it is what it is. So I just think that human nature is going to stay the same going forward. So like my overall thesis hasn't changed. I think what the only thing that's changed is probably like the timelines in terms of adoption and maybe what gets us there. Right. Like, you know, maybe maybe it's gaming, maybe it's fashion, maybe it's music. I don't know. Maybe it's film. [29:37] Like, I don't know. And I think like if we were to run this simulation over a thousand times, we probably get a thousand different ways that adoption happens. Right. Do you think, though, with, you know, gaming, music, fashion, that it will be a kind of cultural change? [29:53] kind of good that will get us there, though? Yeah. That's kind of the... [29:57] I think so, because like... [29:59] You need to like, for instance, like DeFi games, like money games. [30:04] Like people, there's, there's a small sub, something to the population that loves it, but not everybody loves it. Right. Cause if everybody loved money games, everybody would be a trader. I was going to say, everyone would be an investor and money is intimidating and lots of people have lots of baggage around money that. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, but like collecting things, like collecting, you know.

[30:24] When I was a little kid, like I collected seashells and nobody needs to show me how to collect seashells. Right. Like little kids collect these things. You see that. And so I just think that, like, when you look at adoption, it's it's probably going to happen with something cultural, something not related to money that people inherently understand. The money games are fun and they're nice for a certain segment of people. [30:54] But I just think that like at the outset, it's probably going to be I've been saying this for a while. We're like, I firmly believe that NFTs are the Trojan horse that takes crypto mainstream. [31:05] Love it. Love it. And one last question before I get more into, because I really want to talk about 90cc. [31:12] We love fashion on the Context Podcast. Just around your investment thesis, I know that you said before that the main thing that you were doing, at least at the beginning, was deploying capital into historical crypto art projects. [31:31] crypto art that you thought would actually be at the MoMA and allocating to very historic NFTs. And I'm wondering if you now... [31:40] continue to deploy capital through that strategy or you're investing at all and it's changed? Yeah. So I think that, so when I first came into the space, I felt like everything in that time period, because like, I remember like I'd come in, so my, my original, my original, my

[32:02] game plan was to spend about $5,000 on 20 different projects. Right. And so I would come in and I would like sweep the floor on something. And for five grand, because people could sweep the floor for five grand. I get like multiple things for for for five grand and people would be like, [32:20] dude, don't put all your money in like one place. Like they're like, I was like the whale that was like coming in and like sweeping stuff. And people are like, dude, like, I'm like, well, what other projects do you guys like? What are you looking at? And they're like, dude, like, don't put all your eggs in one basket, spread it out. And, and so like the space was still so small at that time that I was like, all right, [32:39] just common like portfolio theory and diversification that like if i bought 20 projects maybe one or two of them hit because they're super historic right and they'll be in the moma they'll be in in all these museums 30 40 50 years which we're seeing now actually we're seeing already right like i mean my thesis was like this would happen in decades and you know here it happened in two years i remember when i bought my punk my ape i was like i'm gonna be the first sale at [33:09] Like, you know, crypto bonds went on sale five months later. So like, just like the timeframes have compressed so much, but like the thesis was still the same. So like at that time period, I was like, I'm going to come into the space. I'm going to buy a bunch of things. I don't know what's going to work. Mm hmm. [33:23] But, you know, diversification, spread the bets out, and then something will hit. Now, as... [33:29] I think the space has matured. We're past that point where every, every NFT is going to be historic, right? Because so many NFTs are coming out where it's like now, like you need to have, you know, a curator's eye, you need to understand what people are looking for. What are the themes that are developing? And so I think because of that, I've slowed down a lot. Right. And also like, I have like a really good set of assets. So, you know, when people are like, Oh, why don't you sell some squiggles? I'm like, yeah,

[33:56] I don't know if squiggles five to 10 X from here, I'm still going to be a really happy person. But why would I sell that squiggle now to try to buy something that maybe thousand X's or goes to zero? Right. So I'm like, I'm in a pretty good spot. So like, I don't need to necessarily, unless I, I find something where I'm like, oh my God, this is an amazing opportunity. Then, okay, maybe I'll sell some squiggles and like reallocate. But like, as of right now, I think because of also I'm building so much with the stuff that I'm doing with 90 CC. [34:26] have as much time to really sit there and like, [34:28] buy like a bunch of different things and really explore a lot of different projects. I just much rather kind of like stay put. But then like, if I have like, if I if I'm talking to enough people that are like talking about something interesting, then I'll be like, Okay, cool. Maybe I'll buy something here or I'll collect something from an artist or a project that I like. But I just know that like the chances of me to [34:52] kind of like striking lightning twice as I think I struck lightning with with the squiggles and the punks. [35:00] that like what are the chances that happens again? I think it's very slim. So I if if squiggles and pumps both 10x from here, [35:08] I'm going to be super happy. Right. I'm not I'm not complaining about anything, but I don't need to try to find that next like 1000 X, 10,000 X where, you know, I put in like a thousand bucks and expect to make a million bucks off of it. Right.

[35:24] I wanted to go specifically into 9DCC, which again, you know, it's a crypto native luxury house under your creative direction. And I wanted to know first kind of. [35:35] Why luxury fashion for you? Is it more a personal love? I know it is because I see your fits all the time on Insta and Twitter. But do you also see then a specific opportunity in the space that you're really looking to address and fill with the brand? [35:52] Yeah, so I think that, one, I think everybody is into fashion, even if you're not into fashion, right? Like, I always think, I always laugh at... [36:03] the quote from devil wears Prada where like, you know where she starts on like her first day or something. And Meryl Streep like goes on that tirade where it's like, you know, you buying this thing at this discount store, like three seasons later, like, you know, [36:17] that's an expression of your personal fashion. And so like I, I think that that's really true, that really resonates with me. And so I think that that is that's really interesting. One of the things that I, I personally saw for a need in the space was, and again, I think this goes back to the signaling where very similar to like, why I bought my CryptoPunk was to send a signal, right. And one of the things that I felt was missing was, [36:44] How can I signal in the real world that I'm a crypto native [36:48] without wearing a $5 t-shirt that I got from the Solana conference, or a cartoon PFP. I'm an adult, if I want to go out to Nobu on a Friday night and look good,

[37:06] There has to be a high quality product that I can wear that can signal I'm in crypto. [37:11] And that doesn't exist. That didn't exist. And so I'm like, well, rather than wait for somebody to build it. Right. Because like you can walk into a Dior store and a lot of people that are successful in crypto, you can walk in, you can buy whatever you want in the store and you can wear that out. But that won't tell the other that won't say you're a crypto native. Right. That would be like, well, you know, that person's wearing a nice piece of clothing. But that's not to say, oh, this person is in crypto. Right. It's like the only options were either you can buy that expensive product from a brand that not crypto. [37:41] native, or you can like wear your Solana shirt, right? And it's like, to me, I'm like, well, [37:47] I don't want to do either of those. Like why? Like, and why doesn't exist? And that really was kind of like, [37:52] why I wanted to start 90CC is like, it's an aesthetic that I want to kind of send the signal that I want, because I think if [38:00] If my thesis is that crypto and NFTs are going to be super important over the next decades, [38:06] right, then being a crypto native is gonna mean something, right, whereas today we're just like this small subculture of nerds that like blockchain technology, right, but over time I think it goes mainstream [38:19] And people are going to people are going to be proud to say that they're a crypto native. Right. Like, I think in 2023, I think there's a lot of backlash. Thanks, SPF. Thank you so much. Cheers. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. But I think in the future, I think people are going to be like, yeah, like I am a crypto native and I am successful. And like, this is a brand that represents me.

[38:49] three specific way with, with that language and that kind of buying process, um, kind of attached to it. Um, one of the things too, that stood out to me, and I was like, I have to bring this up is, um, Margella's 1989 show, which you mentioned, I was like, oh my gosh, she's talking about this. We could talk about this on the podcast where, you know, um, um, [39:10] He did a fashion show in the outskirts of Paris in a playground where like literally the kids playing in the playground were part of the fashion show. So he made it so that this show was accessible to everyone. But still, I mean... [39:24] his work is hard to understand. It's not like that easily accessible. So I'm wondering, you know, with, because I know you've also talked about that you do want to make crypto accessible, you do want to have more cars on the highway. So in relation to the kind of Margiela fashion show, and thinking through that idea, I mean, how do you bridge this accessibility with this exclusivity that luxury very much is? [39:50] So I think it's, [39:52] I think it's a really interesting dilemma, right? Because also it's like you want to make – [39:58] If you could buy like, you know, a 90cc shirt whenever you want for like 10 bucks, [40:03] It's not that I don't want it as much. Sorry, Johnny. I don't want it as much. Yeah. [40:10] You know, that's literally, right? That's mimetic desire, right? That's literally like how we are programmed as humans. And so it's really understanding that and being like, okay, well,

[40:22] So there's going to be there's going to be points where crypto is super attainable to get into. Right. For NFTs, like, you know, whatever it is, you know, low price NFTs, I'm sure NFTs are going to be given away for free. Right. Like at scale. Right. For for a lot of brands and a lot of people doing stuff. But like 90 CC specifically won't be that. Right. Because I want it to be something where it's like, oh, I am successful. Like this is something this is a treat. Right. Like this is not like it won't be available to everyone. [40:52] Because then it makes you feel special when you're part of that, right? Where it's like, okay, we're at the forefront of technology in terms of like the gamification of things, like getting people to connect in real life. Like you were in Miami and like you saw, I'm sure you were running around collecting people's PO-Apps, giving out your PO-Apps, meeting new people, right? That are like-minded individuals. [41:13] Right. And that to me is something that's special. If I can empower people to meet each other like [41:20] I love hearing stories of like, I hope one day you tell me a story of like you met somebody through one of these events and now they're like a business partner or a friend or whatever. Right. And like you build something amazing together that didn't exist. And that to me is like really special and pushing the space forward and allowing people this way to find each other in real life. [41:40] Because I mean, I can make a really good case that the the best utility for NFTs right now is parties and IRL events. Right. Because like literally because everybody's building their roadmap. And then in the meantime, they're like, all right, well, we'll have an event at the NFT NYC, an event here or whatever. And that that's really like, you know, people always talk about community. And like, that's the important part is like, I'm only one person. Right.

[42:10] get a group of like-minded individuals together to meet without me having to be the center of it, then like that to me is success, right? If like people are like, all right, well, 90CC in Tokyo is gonna meet up this week, and they're gonna get together, regardless of whether I'm there or not, right? Or New York or whatever, where people are just meeting up together, I think that that becomes super special. And when you talk about like the scale of like decentralized communities, that's like the beauty of it, right? It's like, [42:38] You don't have one team or one person that's working on it. It's like here you have a group of like-minded individuals that can now find themselves, find each other out in the wild and then build something cool together. Right. And that to me is like the power of it. Yeah. And I know you even have mentioned that you're one of your first kind of like POAP hunts in Bitcoin Miami. Two of the people that actually came to that coffee shop to get your POAP started a VC fund. [43:05] So you've been bringing people together. And I'll say for the audience, too, the way that G-Money has utilized PoE Apps has been the most brilliant. [43:14] So, so, so brilliant. And I mean, I guess I'll just, you know, one of the terms that I wanted to zero in on, and I think like what you're describing and what you've created with 9DCC is a networked product. And that's a term that you have on your website. And it's really like the t-shirts facilitate more IRL connection and give then through this IRL connection,

[43:44] you meaningful connections. Like it's not just like a LinkedIn connect. Um, and so you're, it's funny you say about the LinkedIn connect. Cause right. Like no shade to LinkedIn, but you know, no, but like, because like when you think about like LinkedIn, like, you know, whatever, 10 plus years ago, it was high signal. It was like, you only added people in your network. So I could go up to you and be like, Hey Blake, do you know this person? Because I'm looking like to do business with them or whatever. Right. And then you would make that intro and obviously a [44:14] warm intro is more valuable than me just cold calling. Right. And so one of the things that we started noticing a lot of people brought up during the Art Basel event is they're like, okay, right. Like now let's say I collect your PO app, you collect mine. That means we met in real life. Right. And so then now somebody could be like, Hey, G money. Like I saw you met Blake, you guys collected each other's PO apps. [44:38] I would love an introduction because I have this idea. I love that people are coming to you to meet me. You know what I mean? But that's like the network effect. Totally. Then all of a sudden, or if somebody has like my PO-OP and I have theirs and they just reach out to you and then it's like, oh, wow, like we both know G-Money. So like, you know, maybe we're more likely to work together. I think we're going to start seeing like, I think. [45:02] the, the, the, the beginning levels of like a higher signal LinkedIn, right? Because like, which is what you've created. I mean, more than that, you've created way more than that, but, but no, but like, that's at the base layer. That to me is like, and we're, we're building out tools. Like I want to empower the, the like community to be like, here are your like, you know, second degree connections. Right. And it's like, maybe, you know, you have something in common, like, oh, wait, like I'm only one degree away from this person. Like we have more in common than we

[45:32] and we're part of the 90cc network, so one, what does that say in and of itself? And then two is, okay, now-- [45:39] part of this community and we can connect and we can maybe hopefully build something cool together. Cause like, like, like to what you alluded to is like, [45:47] those stories of people connecting and building stuff outside of like me, like I, like that to me was like an aha moment where I, [45:56] I had no idea what I was gonna be doing in the future at that point, but I knew I was like, all right, well, let me just do this cool scavenger hunt [46:04] people show up, people show up, they don't, whatever. Right. Um, and these guys went and they, you know, they co-founded a couple of DAOs together. They started that VC fund and I'm like, this is awesome. I'm like, so this is really great. Like, how can I start to do this at scale? So that it's not just like whoever follows G money and shows up at this place at that time can participate. It's like, if we can build out this network effect where, you know, [46:29] Like I want to do like simultaneous meetups around the world in like, you know, like different time zones around the planet where people are just meeting up together and like forming these connect connections outside of me having to be like, hey, everybody show up to this place at this time. Right. Because that's when like I think the network effect becomes super powerful. And then, you know, to your point of saying like the network product is like it starts to make sense.

[46:59] about things people are like, [47:00] I don't really get it. And I think people are starting to get it now because it's like you're it's basically like your node in real life. Right. It's like we're each our own specific node. And now we're able to now take this connection that happens IRL that's been happening since the beginning of time when you meet somebody in real life. But now how do you kind of like memorialize it on chain so that now like your identity is. [47:24] and personalities can start to get linked to each other. And then what starts to happen then, right? In terms of like crypto and identity. And like, I know this is one of the things that people are definitely trying to solve for [47:37] But like the power of that, of like a wallet that's associated with you that has now collected, let's say 30 POAPs in real life. [47:47] that's probably a real person. That's probably not a bot, right? Totally. I think at some point, things will get botted. But like, you know, that is you can say with like a 98 99% confidence interval that this person, this wallet is a real human being. And then what does that start to mean for like all the other primitives in crypto in terms of like credit, right? Like, what does it mean if you're like an active, well regarded member in the 90 CC community that is connected [48:17] and get some form of credit because they're like, oh, well, this isn't a wallet that's like was just created and like they can rug it like there's a reputation there with that. Right. And then going back to what you originally said is like, oh,

[48:30] it needs to be something that people want to aspire and something that people want to be a part of. Because if anybody, you know, like what's that quote that's like, I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think that there's an element to that, right? Like, and memetic desire that that exists. [48:47] And I just think that like there will be plenty of entry points for the masses to come in. But like 90CC will be one of those things that I'm like, I want people to want to be a part of it, not where it's like I'm begging people to be a part of it. I want people to be like, oh, this is something I really I really understand what they stand for. And I want to be a part of it. And maybe I'm not ready to be a part of it yet or I can't afford or whatever. But when I can, this is where I want to go. Right. [49:17] encapsulates like you forging a new definition and understanding of what luxury and access and exclusivity can be all at once within this product and what you can get through not only like wearing a product but also like what that comes with around interaction and meeting people it's it's really like what I think you've achieved is you're like organizing community members in a formal [49:47] of people have talked about that, but the way that you've actually been able to zero in and achieve it, um, has been, um, just like so brilliant. This has been like such an incredible conversation and, and thank you so much for being here. But I wonder, you know, generally to end with is what are you most excited for in the coming months? So I'm like, I guess I'm, I'm,

[50:13] excited at this point because with [50:16] all of the negative news that has happened [50:20] The fact that Ethereum is where it is right now, [50:24] is like [50:25] I think it's super bullish. Yeah. Super, super bullish, right? Where if you told me... [50:31] Like everything that happened over the last like eight months, beginning with like Luna, the Luna collapse and everything that happened. And you were to ask me even like this week with like, you know, Operation Chokehold and, you know, like the government coming down on everything. If you were to tell me what is the price of Ethereum? [50:49] after all of these things happen, I would have been like 600 bucks if we're lucky. Maybe, you know, 500, 400, like something really low. And the fact that we're here at this price right now, [51:01] with all of this stuff happening makes me super bullish long term. [51:06] When we really start to go, I don't know, right? Like your guess would be as good as mine. And I think there's like a lot of like macro factors that will go into the – [51:16] into that will be part of when and how we go. [51:21] But I do think the fact that we're sitting here at, you know, [51:25] - 1,700 bucks right now, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Like they're both 1,700 bucks? - Yeah, yeah. [51:28] with everything that's going on is to me super bullish. [51:33] I think in terms of the NFT stuff, I am personally really obviously super excited about fashion, which is why I'm super focused on it. But I do think like

[51:44] I always see like really cool and interesting things that like a lot of different people are working on. I think the AI, like everything that's happening with AI gets me super excited because to me, [51:54] is like in a world where anybody can make anything on the spot, [51:59] Providence really starts to matter. Right. And so then, like, how do you you know, I'm pretty sure pretty soon we're going to have AIs that like will put out whatever whatever it is output that you want, but will be done so as an NFT, which will signify the ownership of like this is when it was created. [52:29] like whichever one tweets about it publicly first, it's like, "No, it's mine," right? But it's like, if that auto-minted to a public blockchain, then you could be like, "Well, technically I minted it first." [52:40] And I don't know. That's a new idea. I think that's actually a really big idea in terms of... [52:45] another reason for the importance of NFT technology. Like AI kind of underscores the importance of all of that. [52:53] Right. And I think it's funny because like when you hear everybody talking about it now, they're like, oh, like, you know, NFTs are done. Web3 is done. AI is the future. And I'm like, I think AI empowers NFTs because you're going to need. It proves the use case more. [53:08] Yeah, in a world where anybody can create anything in under 60 seconds, [53:14] you're going to need that provenance, right? Brilliant.

[53:16] Yeah. What are you bullish on? Before we go, what are you bullish on? Good question, G-Money. I know that people call you G, but I like the full G-Money. [53:26] Good question. I mean, I think what I'm really actually looking at right now is the relationship, particularly on the NFT side and on the investment fund side, the relationship between... [53:37] Token ecosystems and the NFTs that are the real central players within those ecosystems and okay like what are the upsides? Like if you look at bat magic and then the small brains if you look at apes and ape coin if you look at wool and wolf game We didn't even see we didn't even talk about we didn't do that but okay so how can I make a play when the tokens way more liquid you can take upside way easier because you can sell off on the way up and [54:06] And so how can I be making smart investments between that relationship and really leverage that relationship? [54:15] that many people are talking about [54:18] how to... [54:20] really increase that upside in the way that you really can. [54:23] So the relationship... That makes sense. Yeah. It's like an ecosystem play. Exactly. And just from like a liquidity perspective, obviously it's like NFTs are a nightmare for that. And you can't actually really then take any money off the top and take profit. It's really, it's a zero sum. It's a yes or no. You sell the whole NFT or you don't. So can and do some of the ecosystem tokens really act as a proxy? And if so, how can I really leverage that?

[54:51] Um, [54:53] So yeah, that's one of the things I'm thinking through at the moment, I would say. I mean, I love it. I'm probably going to be pinging you asking for some alpha. Literally, please do. Look at that, you guys. We're keeping that in because G-Money was just like, Blake, can you give me some alpha? Anytime, all the time. Yeah. [55:08] G, thank you so much for being on. This is like literally just like such a dream for me. You are so kind and gracious with your time and your thoughts. So thank you so much. [55:18] Thank you for having me.